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Feedback ยท Post Length (implemented)


automatic trait suggestion : 50 out of 50

Unless I missed it, I don't see an option within the profile editing to identify a preferred post length. I'm not sure what other's opinions may be on it, but I personally find it decently helpful when gauging how compatible I might be with partners. I figured this would most likely something that would go under the meta section in traits, but wasn't entirely sure. I suppose it could also be considered an interest, and then by proxy be included within the interests of individual RPs, (if the feature is ever added to search for them by interests) but I imagine the trait's like/dislike system would prove to be more useful differentiating between different length options. However it might be implemented, I don't particularly see a reason it'd hurt at the very least.

meta info

created: 20 March 15 at 12:51 AM (build: 3/13/2015 8:05 PM beta)

closed: 16 April 15 at 09:26 PM (build: 4/12/2015 6:11 PM beta)

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

The idea here is, instead of having vague and not very helpful labels (no one has yet been able to tell me a device-independent way to measure a 'line') you would just look at their public roleplays.

Abel Beaumont

Ah, I see. That's true, I suppose. While I usually go by the crude method of counting periods, that really doesn't give that accurate of a representation considering on how long or short certain sentences can be. As someone who more often than not keeps their roleplays private, that method might not work with others looking at my own profile. Though, I haven't fussed with the systems overly much; it seems like it's completely possible to start up a roleplay with myself purely for post-length demonstration purposes and providing samples via that method, which seems like it would suffice provided that wouldn't be seen as needlessly "clogging" the list of recent roleplays (presuming it updates onto there, which it seems like it may) It's also obviously possible to do so in the description, though that's just a bit less ideal in regards to space.

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

Yeah, it's completely possible to have e.g a backstory listed as a public play on your profile just to show a writing style. Or if you can get away with making a single play public (with the rest private) you can give other people an idea of your posting times and regulairites.

The only issue with this is searching, but I haven't found it terribly useful on sites that do have a post-length measurement, as most people really struggle to figure out where they belong (because most people seem to be flexible to some degree).

Roel

If you make your RP, don't really tag it and just let it sit there - it will get buried under other roleplays quite soon, I imagine.
Alternatively, write a nice, tagged piece and don't worry about 'cluttering' the list because if people bump into it, you might just have found another person to play~

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

I am rejecting this, possibly just for now. We would need to first establish an objective, but meaningful, way to measure post length, and then we would have to assume that a person only has a set post length, which I do not believe to be true. I will encourage people to just read (and consequentially make more public) writing samples to get a handle on how someone contributes to a roleplay or story, how frequently, at what times, etc.

Meleda Macaria

Not sure if it's best to recreate this or add a new post here, but I'd find this a very useful thing to have, especially as the site gets new members. To address what's brought up above: While 'lines' may not be completely objective, I don't think that most people have trouble with determining what it means, especially if all people are looking for is broad strokes. Even something as simple as F-list's does give a decent amount of data, and it would be even more useful here given that what's selected would be seen as the default while preferences would allow someone to show what they're willing/able to play. While people's post length might fluctuate, and that's fine, there's still a lot to be gained in someone that likes to post pages at a time being able to filter out those that tend to write one or two sentences and vise-versa.

As for the public RP, it's a nice idea, but I don't think that it works all that well in practice. Even if checking through someone's history in order to see how they play does catch on, it makes it very easy for someone to be locked into one rough post-length (because those that come after that first public play will be either turned on/off by it) and it makes life much more difficult for new profiles. Either the person creating the profile needs to create a post-sample somewhere for each of the rough lengths they tend to play at, adding a ton of effort to an already involved character-creation process, or the person that they're playing with needs to hope that they're reading into the profile correctly which can easily lead to frustration when things don't work out.

This is on top of the fact that this would be a highly relevant search term (one I can honestly see myself using on every real search I make), and one that seems bizarre to be missing out on considering just how fine the detail is for other aspects of the RP.

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

The problem with post measurement is it varies wildly and is not meaningful on F-list, as everyone has their own interpretations of what each of the values mean. I have literally never gotten the same answer twice to what it means on F-list, and it is especially meaningless on litphoria, which is perfectly and easily accessible on phones. This alone would make the suggestion DOA. This is one of the things that most people adapt to with their partners, which is another huge problem with it being on the profile.

In addition, one of the important things about categories is that a 3rd party observer should be able to relatively easily put you into one of the buckets. This keeps the categories grounded in reality, and adds some level of objectivity to an otherwise subjective deal. If you looked at a person's writing and found them both making short posts and very long ones, you'd not be able to accurately place them in any bucket we could make, therefore the system is philosophically opposed to how litphoria does traits and categories.

Meleda Macaria

But it doesn't address either of the problems I brought up. If you want to make it concrete, you can just make it a word-count, but like I said: It doesn't need to be concrete to be useful, especially not with the ability to effectively indicate a preference for multiple lengths.

From my personal RP experience, I've never successfully 'adapted' or had someone 'adapt' when the initial difference was big enough that one person was writing multiple paragraphs and the other preferred a few sentences. I can absolutely see people that advertise 'para' going up to something a little bit beefier or down a little to something a bit quicker to fit the pace of their partner, but there are limits to what people enjoy playing and running into those is a really unpleasant way to end an RP.

Making traits something that a third party observer can categorize people with is fine for physical attributes, but at the same time that philosophy doesn't really apply to the meta traits that we already have. Mood is something that, while generally consistent, can vary just as wildly from RP to RP as post length does. Hell, on Meleda alone I'm advertising for two moods that are wildly different and starting up a private RP that's different still. Same can be said of first/third person perspective.

Meleda Macaria

Also, just realized that this is still buried on page whatever, which will make discussion with new people hard. Any way to get it up closer to the top? This is probably one of those things that should have a few more eyes on it than just me + the people that posted in the original thread.

Roel

The problem with post measurement is it varies wildly and is not meaningful on F-list, as everyone has their own interpretations of what each of the values mean. I have literally never gotten the same answer twice to what it means on F-list, and it is especially meaningless on litphoria, which is perfectly and easily accessible on phones. This alone would make the suggestion DOA. This is one of the things that most people adapt to with their partners, which is another huge problem with it being on the profile.

Word count is the ultimately objective measure that anybody can easily check by pasting their posts into one of modern text editors that count them for you, and is viewport-independent. Argument about adapting can be made about quite a bit of things and thus it doesn't really deserve the "huge" as a descriptor.
People realistically can and do adapt the post perspective, tense used in the posts, length of the posts and (probably, because I have still no idea what that abomination is even supposed to do) atmosphere. All of these were introduced as basic ways of giving out meta-information despite being either easily adjustable or straight-up changing from RP to RP. I honestly don't believe that Post length would be more varied than Atmosphere - I actually expect it to do so less, because amount of text you put is one's personal preference, while Atmosphere you try to have in your play is a tool to guiding the narrative in desired direction.

Generally, I do not see any of the arguments standing when examined in the context of what we currently have. And I can say that it is not too hard to find people who think it is absurd for litohoria to lack one of the most basic informations easily available.
Because, like with what Meleda said - it is a lot of hassle to show the length you go for if you are new, and you can't assess it quickly either, especially with Comparer. Sure, you can dig to see how much they write if they even have a public RP, but you could also just see a glaring, emphasized text because you are a person that prefers Post length of Short essay (150-250 words), Essay (250-500) and Pages (500+) but the person they are looking at go for Paragraph (50-150) at max, with strong preference of IM (sub 50). Boink! All work done by the glorious comparer!
Name are made-up on the spot, but that is how it should work, really. Handle as much stuff to the system - and as we know from Flist, a whole damn lot of people is very, very strict about the post length. So, let us just give them 100% impossible to re-interpret measure of the length and we are set.

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

It wasn't even buried, it was rejected, so basically invisible. I've moved it to needs discussion.

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

No further objections have been raised, so I'm unblocking. Will have to be very careful about any categories we suggest for this though.

Roel

How is it possible it has 50 points in it and is not implemented?

Wrecked Avent Site Administrator

No sure, will look into it

Meleda Macaria

Also, I just realized thanks to a comment from Roel in a different thread: We probably need to change the description in this case, right?

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