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Feedback ยท Roll some of these new Magic interests into Magic Use. (accepted)

master of 1 children

In December, someone suggested deleting supernatural nature, who since deleted their character and thus their comments. The idea came up to have magical interests, then lo and behold, a full page's worth appeared in Feedback. 14 have been endorsed, some are still in auto feedback (on page 3 at time of writing). This is something we haven't done before in Interests and it'll take some experimentation to get right.

I believe we should unblock Magic Use for endorsement and roll some of those magic interests, which I'll list, into it - i.e. delete or reject them, and just handle them as part of that.

My rationale for selection is this:

  • People care how your magic works, but the how isn't important to divide up taxonomically. Specifying how is what context are for. (I like breath play, but I'm not going to suggest an interest for each specific method for doing it.)
  • What results the magic achieves is worth distinguishing, but several interests either (a) are just "do something vaguely magical" without any specific results, or (b) the results achieved are already covered by another interest, so it's just "do that thing, but with very specific magic". (A lot of magic is just a wild way to achieve something otherwise more ordinary, we likely don't need "but with magic" interests - that can be a context too.)
  • Having a number of very specific magical interests isn't helpful. There's hundreds of kinds; people are very creative.

Here's the interests to delete or reject:

  • Sigilism, Enchanting, Spellcrafting: "Do magic, but like this." Instead, take Magic Use, and specify the flavour of your magic in its context. Sigilism sounds like a Ritual anyway.
  • Magical Binding: Mind Control, but with magic. Take that and Magic Use instead, specify contexts, maybe use Ownership and Body Puppeting if appropriate.
  • Effigy magic: Mind Control, Body Puppeting, Torture, Sacrifice, and others. Use those and Magic Use.
  • Cleromancy: just use Divination and specify in context you read tea leaves or bones or whatever.
  • Transmutation: this is what Alchemy is about, so it's redundant. Lead to gold, and all that. I've made a request to make the Alchemy interest's description more accurate.
  • (Maybe) Cursing, Blessing, which are both "do magic in vaguely unhelpful/helpful ways", except with very specific dark or divine overtones. This makes them both very vague in what they achieve, while very specific about how they accomplish it, to the point that many kinds of harmful/helpful magic can't be described using these. Both of these also have no direct obvious impact on what will actually happen in the story as a result of using them, other than vague sweeping hints. Instead take Magic Use and interests that indicate what you want to do with this vague magic: Torture, Melee Combat, Tending, etc.

For completeness, the ones not singled out here for deletion are: Telepathy, Teleportation, Summoning, Illusion, Ritual, Telekinesis, Necromancy, Mediumship, Alchemy, and (still in feedback) Divination. These all have unique and distinct functions, they're not just unnecessarily specific varieties of "do magic", and they're not replications of existing interests but with magic. That's not to say they don't have other problems, mind, which they might do. I'm also open to hearing if any of those might be unnecessary as well.

meta info

endorsement points: 1

created: 02 February 16 at 08:45 AM (build: 10/1/2015 4:20 PM beta)

children

Transmutation

Solara Silverdawn

Magical Binding is sometimes Mind Control but not always. I'd say that Ownership and Imprisonment cover some other aspects of it. The main aspect I can't really find an analog for is magical contracts (which are not really within the scope of the trait's description, but it definitely comes to mind when I hear the term). They don't necessitate mind control, ownership, etc. and may be completely equal relationships. Don't know if we need an actual trait for that, though. Could possibly fit under Trading, at least in some cases.

No strong feelings about Enchanting and Spellcraft. Strongly agree that Sigilism falls under Ritual, Cleromancy falls under Divination, and Transmutation falls under Alchemy. Effigy Magic could also fall under Ritual and, if kept, Cursing or Blessing depending upon its nature. I think Cursing and Blessing may be distinct enough to warrant keeping, but again, I don't feel too strongly about that.

Samus

It occurs to me that if we keep Magical Binding as a unique thing, then it covers Effigy Magic.

But also:

Magical Binding is sometimes Mind Control but not always. I'd say that Ownership and Imprisonment cover some other aspects of it.

I think that make it one of those super vague "do some kind of magic, but like this" interests. There's no specific result, it's just a magical approach to... something that kinda fits a theme.

Solara Silverdawn

Yeah, I'm not really arguing for keeping Magical Binding, especially not defined as it is. I would actually say the Mind Control part of it is very small and could be used in combination with it if it were a more distinct thing, but Ownership and Imprisonment cover so much of the rest. Like, the genie in a lamp example from the description? That's really just Imprisonment of a magical nature. Sealing a demon? Imprisonment, maybe with a side of Ownership if you've captured the demon. Making someone stop moving with magic? Not really Mind Control if it's physical/magical in nature, but also probably not distinct enough to warrant a whole trait.

What I could see is possibly distinct is the basic concept of forging magical connections from one thing to another, but I'm still not sure that warrants a trait, and that's not how the trait is defined currently anyway. It's stopping people from doing stuff with magic right now, which could happen in any number of ways.

Samus

I think you mean interest, rather than trait!

Making someone stop moving with magic? Not really Mind Control if it's physical/magical in nature, but also probably not distinct enough to warrant a whole trait.

Sounds like body puppeting, which we've got!

Solara Silverdawn

That I did, whoops! Often enough I mean one but say the other. :x

Potentially could be Body Puppeting, but again, it may or may not be accomplished through mind control (which is what Body Puppeting focuses on). It sounds like it would also encompass things like stopping people with spiritual/physical forces. Even that has enough bleed over with other traits that I don't know if it's really distinct, though.

Solara Silverdawn

... and I did it again. Other interests. Interests.

Lich Community Manager

The community managers accept this plan. What you do is an interest, but how you do something is a context. Magical interests that emphasize the how without having a specific what won't be so useful.

  • Transmutation has been closed as a duplicate of Alchemy.
  • Cleromancy has been closed as a duplicate of Divination.
  • Spellcrafting has been closed as a duplicate of Magic Use.
  • Effigy Magic has been declined as just being a method, appropriate for contexts and descriptions.

The following are already in the system, and the staff will discuss the matter of removal: Sigilism, Enchanting, Magical Binding, Cursing, Blessing.

Desdemona Fireheart

Black magic and White magic would be useful. Maybe species magic for elves or dragons. Magic items used in a RP.

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